Posted by Enlightened Mama on November 09, 2003 at 08:06:12:
In Reply to: Re: Answer to Question posted by lindes on November 07, 2003 at 14:14:24:
Lindes,
I noticed you have posted a similar message in many places. It appears that you believe that all mothers should stay home all the time, and if a Dad helps, that's great, but not his responsibility. Moms should not work and apparently never seek time to themselves or any outlet, which would in your terms be selfish. So while you say you are a "feminist" (a label that may be useless anyway), it appears you want a return to the world order -- at least for the middle and upper-middle classes for which you seem to have your only sympathy -- before 1960's and 1970's feminism hit.
Now I read "The Mommy Trap" and the author would say you have a traditional mindset, which works well and is somewhat easier than anything else to try, as long as both spouses are the same. But don't you see that some people need to work and are not rich or even middle class on one salary and can still be committed parents? And that some people want something different. If men can parent as well as women, as research seems to suggest, why not allow them? I'll respond to some of your points below.
: "I don't think that uneducated, consistently welfare-dependent mothers with several children should be allowed to qualify for SAH compensation. The REAL segment of society that deserves compensation is the middle class - the moms who have made the smart choice to stay home full-time, to homeschool their child(ren), take care of all home and family business, and work hard all day at their chosen career of homemaker, while their husbands work hard at their jobs to provide for the family and whose income is between twenty and seventy-five thousand $ per year."
Yikes! What about widows or single Moms whose husbands ditched them through no fault of their own? What would happen to all of the schools if everyone homeschooled? Should everyone else who wants even a ten minute break sometime or Dad to partner with her just die?
"It probably is true that overall, people tend to think that women are more adequate homemakers, but in these times, more and more women are completely worthless as wives, mothers, and homemakers."
I think it's better not to judge others. Everybody walks their own path; some may be better for children than others and it's fair to talk about those routes and choices on those terms. But completely worthless? Come on.
"Yes, more men are staying home, but let's face it, men simply are not comfortable with the role of homemaker and should not be - it is the nature of the males species to seek employment and provide for his family."
Does this go back to caveman days? No good to generalize again. Some men are wonderful as homemakers and it's not fair or right to discount what they do. You may not like it, but men and women have changed and while I agree that it's not natural or desirable to leave children with strangers for so many hours, men and women today are both equally able to seek employment, although it is interesting to note that women don't stick with it as much when children enter into the picture, for good reason.
"I'm just against the whole idea of mothers working outside the home when their children are young."
Hallelujah. This sounds more reasonable. In general I agree that you're right, but would change it to parents. And what if not working causes mothers to become "welfare queens" or poor? Then they need to leave your world, I fear.
"Your last paragraph is not worthy of retort."
Actually a lot of my friends in my mother's group (we all stay home by the way and not one of us agrees with most of your points except of course that staying home is hard work and that society does not always value what we do even though it is essential in a way that no other work is) do use sex to get help in the house and with the kids and sometimes things (vacation, clothes, etc.) And I think that's because they want more help and some would argue that the only power a woman in a traditional relationship has is to give or withhold sex; some women in the group don't have control over how money is spent and this is a huge issue we always talk about. I don't think that's necessarily natural or desirable.